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	<title>Comments on: Goodbye, HRCI Recent Graduate Exemption</title>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-11501</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-11501</guid>
		<description>Not all students who have sat for the exam are devoid of HR experience.  I have worked in HR for over 15 years but always as an Administrative Assistant in the non-exempt capacity.  Only recently did I complete my degree validating my worth to employers as well as sitting for the PHR with the recent graduate exemption.  I studied using the SHRM learning system and passed. Thus, as with anything, a blanket statement cannot be made that all recent graduates are lacking experience.  In my role as an HR Staff Assistant, I learned quite a lot and when those exempt level colleagues with whom I worked were out of the office, it was my duty and part of my job to step into their shoes and perform those same tasks and functions, merely without the visible recognition that I was performing at a higher level.

Yes, the certification does have meaning and but I do not believe it is completely correct to give up the student exemption.  After all, we can&#039;t use the letters until we have worked and submitted proof of 2 years work experience at the Exempt level.  Did I pass? YES - Was it less meaningful because I utilized the student exemption?  NO  Can I tell people I passed?  Most certainly, I just cannot put the letters after my name.  What I can say is that I actually do have a handle on the knowledge or at least where to find the answers to perform my job to the best of my ability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all students who have sat for the exam are devoid of HR experience.  I have worked in HR for over 15 years but always as an Administrative Assistant in the non-exempt capacity.  Only recently did I complete my degree validating my worth to employers as well as sitting for the PHR with the recent graduate exemption.  I studied using the SHRM learning system and passed. Thus, as with anything, a blanket statement cannot be made that all recent graduates are lacking experience.  In my role as an HR Staff Assistant, I learned quite a lot and when those exempt level colleagues with whom I worked were out of the office, it was my duty and part of my job to step into their shoes and perform those same tasks and functions, merely without the visible recognition that I was performing at a higher level.</p>
<p>Yes, the certification does have meaning and but I do not believe it is completely correct to give up the student exemption.  After all, we can&#8217;t use the letters until we have worked and submitted proof of 2 years work experience at the Exempt level.  Did I pass? YES &#8211; Was it less meaningful because I utilized the student exemption?  NO  Can I tell people I passed?  Most certainly, I just cannot put the letters after my name.  What I can say is that I actually do have a handle on the knowledge or at least where to find the answers to perform my job to the best of my ability.</p>
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		<title>By: SPHR Questions &#124; upstartHR</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-9752</link>
		<dc:creator>SPHR Questions &#124; upstartHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-9752</guid>
		<description>[...] Of course, this is all my random knowledge, so feel free to check out the HRCI site to see if they have additional information. Oh, and don&#8217;t forget that HRCI is changing their requirements in 2011! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of course, this is all my random knowledge, so feel free to check out the HRCI site to see if they have additional information. Oh, and don&#8217;t forget that HRCI is changing their requirements in 2011! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Can Students Take the PHR Exam? &#124; upstartHR</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-8501</link>
		<dc:creator>Can Students Take the PHR Exam? &#124; upstartHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 19:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-8501</guid>
		<description>[...] rules for students and other HR professionals who would like to take the exam. Here are the HRCI eligibility requirements for getting PHR certified.You may also enjoy...Rock the PHR RelaunchPHR-SPHR Deadline [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rules for students and other HR professionals who would like to take the exam. Here are the HRCI eligibility requirements for getting PHR certified.You may also enjoy&#8230;Rock the PHR RelaunchPHR-SPHR Deadline [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-1780</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-1780</guid>
		<description>Having recently completed grad school with zero HR experience, it is not news to my ears.  However, I completely understand the importance of the decision as it increases the PHR&#039;s value.  After all, the cert. handbook states that, &quot;Because the exams measure mastery of the application of the HR body of knowledge, it is impossible to train or teach to the exam.&quot;  I think I may study up and give it a shot anyway...before 2011.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having recently completed grad school with zero HR experience, it is not news to my ears.  However, I completely understand the importance of the decision as it increases the PHR&#8217;s value.  After all, the cert. handbook states that, &#8220;Because the exams measure mastery of the application of the HR body of knowledge, it is impossible to train or teach to the exam.&#8221;  I think I may study up and give it a shot anyway&#8230;before 2011.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-1304</guid>
		<description>I took the PHR as a &quot;recent grad&quot; and have since taken the SHPR and GPHR. In my experience the PHR covers very cut and dry technical info. &quot;how long to keep an I-9&quot; &quot;Basics of the FLSA&quot; etc. I think you can learn these things from a book with little or no experience (I did). When you took the PHR as a recent graduate you still needed to achieve 2 years experience after to actually get the certification so it&#039;s not like they handed it to you with your diploma. I think it was a good program and let young eager HR people get their feet wet and demonstrate their drive. 

I see both sides of the other requirement changes. I can see that by making the time requirement longer and the certifications more exclusive they hold higher value. I can also see the side that says just because you&#039;ve been in an HR role for a number of years it doesn&#039;t necessarily make you any smarter, better, or more knowledgable then someone with less experience. It depends &quot;what&quot; the experience involves not &quot;how long&quot; it was. You can&#039;t do a detailed analysis of each candidate&#039;s job history though in deciding if they should be able to sit for the exam so again I can see the reasons behind the change, even if I don&#039;t think they truly accomplish the overall goal of only certifying top notch HR people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took the PHR as a &#8220;recent grad&#8221; and have since taken the SHPR and GPHR. In my experience the PHR covers very cut and dry technical info. &#8220;how long to keep an I-9&#8243; &#8220;Basics of the FLSA&#8221; etc. I think you can learn these things from a book with little or no experience (I did). When you took the PHR as a recent graduate you still needed to achieve 2 years experience after to actually get the certification so it&#8217;s not like they handed it to you with your diploma. I think it was a good program and let young eager HR people get their feet wet and demonstrate their drive. </p>
<p>I see both sides of the other requirement changes. I can see that by making the time requirement longer and the certifications more exclusive they hold higher value. I can also see the side that says just because you&#8217;ve been in an HR role for a number of years it doesn&#8217;t necessarily make you any smarter, better, or more knowledgable then someone with less experience. It depends &#8220;what&#8221; the experience involves not &#8220;how long&#8221; it was. You can&#8217;t do a detailed analysis of each candidate&#8217;s job history though in deciding if they should be able to sit for the exam so again I can see the reasons behind the change, even if I don&#8217;t think they truly accomplish the overall goal of only certifying top notch HR people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-1296</guid>
		<description>Matthew, this comment is absolutely amazing. I would love to use it in an upcoming post. Look for a message from me soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew, this comment is absolutely amazing. I would love to use it in an upcoming post. Look for a message from me soon.</p>
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		<title>By: akaBruno</title>
		<link>http://upstarthr.com/goodbye-recent-graduate-hrci/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator>akaBruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://upstarthr.com/?p=488#comment-1295</guid>
		<description>I have been a  SHRM student chapter advisor for over 10 years and have taken and passed both the PHR and SPHR exam.  I know a lot of other passionate and dedicated student chapter advisors who were not pleased with the recent changes in eligibility.  These changes sparked vigorous discussion on the SHRM Chapter Advisor listserv, and prompted HRCI to host an impromptu conference call with advisors to address the new eligibility requirements.  While I believe the changes are set in stone, I do know Nancy Woolever, Director of Academic Initiatives at SHRM (whom Ben has interviewed), and Chuck Salvetti, SHRM Student Programs Manager, are looking into alternatives for students to help students distinguish themselves as they apply for HR positions.

That being said, here are my thoughts:
1.  I concur that “If some “upstart” can take the exam after college and pass without any exempt level HR experience, then that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re as qualified as someone who has years of HR experience before deciding to take the exam.”  However, as @adowling noted, there are already restrictions in place for student who pass the exam.  Students who pass the exam are NOT allowed to claim they are certified.  They MUST get 2 years of  exempt-level experience in five years after passing the certification exam before being allowed to use the PHR designation.  

2.  One concern stated by HRCI was that students had a lower passing rate than HR professionals (57.2% to 71%).  First, that should be expected.  However, that is still a majority able to pass the exam.  Further, if, as @Lori noted, “a certification exam touts its value on an experiential level,” and a majority of a group of individuals are able to pass it without the experience, shouldn’t the focus be on changing the exam than the eligibility requirements?  Why aren’t HRCI and its question writers being held accountable for an exam that doesn’t reflect that experiential level instead of punishing students who may demonstrate a strong understanding of the HR knowledge base?

3.  Why is exempt experience held as the end-all, be-all of eligibility?  One can take the exam without ever having taking an HR course.  One can even take the exam without ever taking a single college course!  A siginificant number of students walk into the exam with a wealth of HR “experience”: they have taken several HR and management courses, participated significantly in their student SHRM chapter, participated in HR internships or job shadowing or mentoring, conducted HR research, competed in the HR games, and attended SHRM professional chapter meetings and state, regional or national SHRM conferences.  Many of these activities count toward recertification, but are not seen as important enough to qualify for certification.  

4.  In a similar vein, no effort was made by HRCI/SHRM to examine the “quality” of student passing rates on the PHR exam based on academic program.  Do those students who come from a program that follows the SHRM curriculum perform significantly better on the exam?  If true, wouldn’t this have been a tremendous selling point for SHRM on the quality of their academic initiatives?


5.  If experience is seen as critical, many academics have taken and passed the PHR and SPHR exams, and can claim being certified, without having worked a single moment in an exempt HR position.  Should a similar constraint be placed on academics?

6.  If the concern is that students who pass the exam are taking jobs away from more “qualified” HR professionals who have the experience, but have not passed the exam, one has to wonder about the true signal of certification and what it represents.  If certification is so critical, why do so few HR jobs require it or use it in their advertising.  A 2005 study by Aguinis, H., Michaelis, S. E., &amp; Jones, N. M.  in the International Journal of Selection and Assessment analyzed each of 1873 HR job announcements available over a 1-week period on http://monster.com, http://hotjobs.yahoo.com, http://careerbuilder.com, and http://shrm.org. Results showed that only nine (i.e., .48%) job announcements stated that there was a requirement and only 70 (i.e., 3.73%) job announcements stated that there was a preference for job applicants with any type of HR certification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a  SHRM student chapter advisor for over 10 years and have taken and passed both the PHR and SPHR exam.  I know a lot of other passionate and dedicated student chapter advisors who were not pleased with the recent changes in eligibility.  These changes sparked vigorous discussion on the SHRM Chapter Advisor listserv, and prompted HRCI to host an impromptu conference call with advisors to address the new eligibility requirements.  While I believe the changes are set in stone, I do know Nancy Woolever, Director of Academic Initiatives at SHRM (whom Ben has interviewed), and Chuck Salvetti, SHRM Student Programs Manager, are looking into alternatives for students to help students distinguish themselves as they apply for HR positions.</p>
<p>That being said, here are my thoughts:<br />
1.  I concur that “If some “upstart” can take the exam after college and pass without any exempt level HR experience, then that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re as qualified as someone who has years of HR experience before deciding to take the exam.”  However, as @adowling noted, there are already restrictions in place for student who pass the exam.  Students who pass the exam are NOT allowed to claim they are certified.  They MUST get 2 years of  exempt-level experience in five years after passing the certification exam before being allowed to use the PHR designation.  </p>
<p>2.  One concern stated by HRCI was that students had a lower passing rate than HR professionals (57.2% to 71%).  First, that should be expected.  However, that is still a majority able to pass the exam.  Further, if, as @Lori noted, “a certification exam touts its value on an experiential level,” and a majority of a group of individuals are able to pass it without the experience, shouldn’t the focus be on changing the exam than the eligibility requirements?  Why aren’t HRCI and its question writers being held accountable for an exam that doesn’t reflect that experiential level instead of punishing students who may demonstrate a strong understanding of the HR knowledge base?</p>
<p>3.  Why is exempt experience held as the end-all, be-all of eligibility?  One can take the exam without ever having taking an HR course.  One can even take the exam without ever taking a single college course!  A siginificant number of students walk into the exam with a wealth of HR “experience”: they have taken several HR and management courses, participated significantly in their student SHRM chapter, participated in HR internships or job shadowing or mentoring, conducted HR research, competed in the HR games, and attended SHRM professional chapter meetings and state, regional or national SHRM conferences.  Many of these activities count toward recertification, but are not seen as important enough to qualify for certification.  </p>
<p>4.  In a similar vein, no effort was made by HRCI/SHRM to examine the “quality” of student passing rates on the PHR exam based on academic program.  Do those students who come from a program that follows the SHRM curriculum perform significantly better on the exam?  If true, wouldn’t this have been a tremendous selling point for SHRM on the quality of their academic initiatives?</p>
<p>5.  If experience is seen as critical, many academics have taken and passed the PHR and SPHR exams, and can claim being certified, without having worked a single moment in an exempt HR position.  Should a similar constraint be placed on academics?</p>
<p>6.  If the concern is that students who pass the exam are taking jobs away from more “qualified” HR professionals who have the experience, but have not passed the exam, one has to wonder about the true signal of certification and what it represents.  If certification is so critical, why do so few HR jobs require it or use it in their advertising.  A 2005 study by Aguinis, H., Michaelis, S. E., &amp; Jones, N. M.  in the International Journal of Selection and Assessment analyzed each of 1873 HR job announcements available over a 1-week period on <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://monster.com" rel="nofollow">http://monster.com</a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://hotjobs.yahoo.com" rel="nofollow">http://hotjobs.yahoo.com</a>, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://careerbuilder.com" rel="nofollow">http://careerbuilder.com</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://shrm.org" rel="nofollow">http://shrm.org</a>. Results showed that only nine (i.e., .48%) job announcements stated that there was a requirement and only 70 (i.e., 3.73%) job announcements stated that there was a preference for job applicants with any type of HR certification.</p>
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